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20 August, 2004

Chris Ilias is not happy

Chris Ilias, a Mozilla Champion, is not happy about me. I will tell you why. Over in the Netscape's newsgroup (secnews),

The issue started with following...
Greg said:

Netscape did or have announced that NS7.2 would be released August 23rd or something like that

Don Luchini replied,

Yes, now it is August 23rd, but that could change in time.

Example, first it was April 2nd, although that was an April fools joke for NS8. Then we expected it shortly after the release of Mozilla 1.7, then we had August 2nd, then the first two weeks of August.


Chris Ilias replied,

You assumed all that from "wait until April 2nd"?

Well, it was Chris who posted "wait until April 2nd" in this thread.

Since he said so, I replied,

What's wrong with that?
That was the words from one of the Champs.

Chris Ilias said,

It's assuming too much.

Assuming too much? Ridiculous!
I replied,

Are you now playing word games.

We all know one (or more) Champ(s) tried very hard to fool other people about the new Netscape and the date - April 2nd. Fact.

CG said,

Well, boo hoo, it was an April Fool joke, so stinking what? This has been going on for years in these groups and is most enjoyable watching people like you get had !! Grow up! It's released now, so STFU!!

/cg

I followed,

So you enjoy being fooled? Excellent!

Greg said,

Antony

im sure uv'e told a few April fool jokes yaself, so maybe Building a Bridge an getting over it might help ey . its Released now so who cares

I replied,

I realise the reliability of posts in this secnews.
However, someone intentionally plotted to fool certain group of users. Most people do not enjoy being fooled.

Chris Ilias can't hold any longer... (snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/cg1p3n$2qt7@ripley.netscape.com)
screenshot of the post

But only a small percentage are pathetic enough to carry an immature grudge for five months, constantly whining about it, and attacking the person that fooled them at every possible angle they can conjure up.

The biggest tragedy is that you let it get in the way of giving user support.

You're so caught up in this "Everyone hates SillyDog" BS, that you are starting to fabricate it to prove you right. Sort of like trying to make your horoscope come true.
"Hey you, you're an idiot, because you hate me"
"I do now" ;-)

What you are doing is ten times more unprofessional than what you accuse me of doing. And most people here, and on SillyDog, have been smart enough to recognize it. That's why I haven't been going out of my way to put down you or SillyDog. I don't need to.

I replied,

Nice reply.

I stated the fact.

Since you directly called the name "SillyDog", and used the word "fooled", I take that as you finally acknowledged you did fool SillyDog701 users.

The real tragedy is that took you so long to acknowledge it. And you do realise April Fool's jokes were banned in technical support forums in SillyDog701.

And I am not here to prove "everyone hates SillyDog". I did say something similar to SillyDog701 Message Centre ( http://sillydog.org/forum/ ) based on the fact that I read this newsgroup (secnews), specially during year 2003. Those messages are all expired and I just haven't asked why.

Most people here can tell what a good user support should be.
People want answers not links, not links back to certain website(s) every time.

Chris Ilias replied, ( snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/cg3452$4nl3@ripley.netscape.com )


screenshot of the message part 1screenshot of the message part 2

"Acknowledge it"? I was the one that *informed* you that is was an Aprils Fools joke. http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29848#29848 And look at the date: APRIL SECOND!!!

Like I said, "No Champion ever stated that Netscape 7.2 would be released on April 2nd." You assumed that much, which wasn't even an obvious assumption. The very first reply to "Wait until April 2nd" was assuming that I was referring to an April fools joke, not a release date. < http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29622#29622 >

>> And you do
>> realise April Fool's jokes were banned in technical support forums in
>> SillyDog701.


It's the way you are dealing with it that you are being criticized for. A proper response would have been to simply say:
"Chris, I assume you haven't read the forum rules. April Fools jokes are not allowed in these forums. Please do not that again."

Then it should have been over with. Instead, you kept a grudge, attacking me, Jay, Dan Gall, secnews, and the UFAQ. You claim to be looking out for the best interests of the Sillydog forum members, but their reactions have been much different than yours. The very first reply was "There's nothing sweeter than when a joke gets turned around! That is truely amazing timing! :-D "
< http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29852#29852 >
Your own moderators are pretty sick of your whining too:
"I hope that Antony has confidence and maturity to drop this NOW."

< http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42312#42312 >

If your own forum members don't share your reaction, stop hiding behind the "administrator responsibility" mask. It's a personal grudge, that you have trouble dealing with. I realize that my blunt harshness makes it all the more hard for you to let it go; but I don't expect you to change your attitude based on one of my messages. You're too proud.


>> Most people here can tell what a good user support should be.
>> People want answers not links, not links back to certain website(s)
>> every time.


Yet, you're so silent about it when Ramona, Holger, or Jay post links. Are there any inner conflicts, when you post links to the Sillydog knowledge base? It's exactly how CG put it: "rhetoric". You wreak of personal grudge.

My site is a user support site, not a commercial site. Unlike you, I don't see other help sites as competition. Answering the same questions over and over again is tiring, annoying, and hinders my ability to give a new question the attention and effort it needs. That's why help sites are created. It allows me to give each user an in depth full answer with less effort. It's about efficiency.

If you reply to this, I will not reply back; because I know you like to get in the last word.

If you're going to continue trolling me, so be it. You injure yourself more than I. Now, I've got user support to do. That's why I'm here. So if you're going to troll me, get ready. :-)

Informing me?
Chris I plotted.

Of course, I replied.

Thanks for that thread. You said, "I suggested the notion of the Moz Champs, as a group, pulling an April fools joke." Translation: you plotted it.

However later, in other posts, you refused to admit that you plotted to fool people by saying "keeping imagination wild". What's the point to cover up?

And for your information, there are people who that serious, and was very disappointed after realising was being fooled by you.

When did I attack Jay?

As for Dan Gall,
Are you referring to http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6250 ? If you read it carefully, I was complaining the Guideline, rather than any individual. For the record, it was me to get the Guideline changed.

And Dan made a huge attack on news://news.mozdev.org:119/40FB1B3E.31426AA3@nowhere.net
I have yet to complain.

As for secnews and the UFAQ.
I stated SillyDog701 was not affiliated with secnews and the UFAQ, and I also stated they don't like SillyDog701 which was base on fact (mainly year 2003's posts). YOU ARE the one have big problem with my statement. I merely stated the fact.


As for "I hope that Antony has confidence and maturity to drop this NOW." it was for my small off topic/conspiracy for "Hmm, anyone notice the ad for UFAQ on the browser homepage?" And my conspiracy was posted in reduced font size.


So you are saying I was arrogant?


As a user in this secnews, I believe we need someone bringing up the posting issue. The style of helping, the content with guide and answer, Definitely not links and links and more links.

As for Ramona, she does not post a link back to her Netscape Solutions without saying some useful content.

UNLIKE, snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/cfumlf$qgl11@ripley.netscape.com
Nothing but a link.

As for Holger, It was at time when I was unable to make any post in this secnews. Hence I suspected I was banned.
There was a period of time I can read but can't post, followed by a period of time I can't even access to this secnews at all. Therefore I suspected I was banned.

As for Jay's posts, I will keep an eye on his posts.

I am HELPING this secnews, in terms of having better quality posts rather than links OR some certain people's advertising channel.


When did SillyDog701 become a commercial site? Nice excuse. Many people see that as an advertising.

I am sure I will receive comments if I post *nothing* but links back to SillyDog701. OR shall I start doing so?


Trolling you? No need for me to do so. Someone *demeaned* himself, not me.



Extended section, a copy of entire message by Chris Ilias


Subject: Re: The entire 7.2 directory structure forbidden
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:56:00 -0400
snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/cg3452$4nl3@ripley.netscape.com

Path: secnews.netscape.com!not-for-mail
From: Chris Ilias < mozillachampion@ilias.ca >
Newsgroups: netscape.netscape7.windows
Subject: Re: The entire 7.2 directory structure forbidden
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:56:00 -0400
Organization: http://mozillachampions.mozdev.org/
Lines: 107
Message-ID: < cg3452$4nl3@ripley.netscape.com >
References: < cfr8ro$a5t13@ripley.netscape.com > < cfrg2b$a5t15@ripley.netscape.com > < cfrh66$rh918@ripley.netscape.com > < cfrkna$rh920@ripley.netscape.com > < cfrtcv$drs15@ripley.netscape.com > < cft9a7$jkn22@ripley.netscape.com > < cfulfq$82530@ripley.netscape.com > < cfv699$lf424@ripley.netscape.com > < cg0hqm$djn10@ripley.netscape.com > < cg16ug$2jp13@ripley.netscape.com > < cg1b9c$re217@ripley.netscape.com > < cg1ip1$32k7@ripley.netscape.com > < cg1kma$se216@ripley.netscape.com >
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.192.230.78
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040803 Thunderbird/0.7.3 Mnenhy/0.6.0.103
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
In-Reply-To: < cg22nk$2qt12@ripley.netscape.com >
_Antony Shen_ spoke thusly:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>>_Antony Shen_ spoke thusly:
>>
>>>Greg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Antony
>>>>
>>>> im sure uv'e told a few April fool jokes yaself, so maybe Building
>>>>a Bridge an getting over it might help ey . its Released now so who cares
>>>
>>>
>>>I realise the reliability of posts in this secnews.
>>>However, someone intentionally plotted to fool certain group of users.
>>>Most people do not enjoy being fooled.
>>
>>
>>But only a small percentage are pathetic enough to carry an immature
>>grudge for five months, constantly whining about it, and attacking the
>>person that fooled them at every possible angle they can conjure up.
>>
>>The biggest tragedy is that you let it get in the way of giving user
>>support.
>>
>>You're so caught up in this "Everyone hates SillyDog" BS, that you are
>>starting to fabricate it to prove you right. Sort of like trying to make
>>your horoscope come true.
>>"Hey you, you're an idiot, because you hate me"
>>"I do now" ;-)
>>
>>What you are doing is ten times more unprofessional than what you accuse
>>me of doing. And most people here, and on SillyDog, have been smart
>>enough to recognize it. That's why I haven't been going out of my way to
>>put down you or SillyDog. I don't need to.
>
>
> Nice reply.
>
> I stated the fact.
>
> Since you directly called the name "SillyDog", and used the word
> "fooled", I take that as you finally acknowledged you did fool
> SillyDog701 users.
>
> The real tragedy is that took you so long to acknowledge it.


"Acknowledge it"? I was the one that *informed* you that is was an
Aprils Fools joke.
http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29848#29848
And look at the date: APRIL SECOND!!!

Like I said, "No Champion ever stated that Netscape 7.2 would be
released on April 2nd." You assumed that much, which wasn't even an
obvious assumption. The very first reply to "Wait until April 2nd" was
assuming that I was referring to an April fools joke, not a release
date. http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29622#29622

> And you do
> realise April Fool's jokes were banned in technical support forums in
> SillyDog701.

It's the way you are dealing with it that you are being criticized for.
A proper response would have been to simply say:
"Chris, I assume you haven't read the forum rules. April Fools jokes are
not allowed in these forums. Please do not that again."

Then it should have been over with. Instead, you kept a grudge,
attacking me, Jay, Dan Gall, secnews, and the UFAQ. You claim to be
looking out for the best interests of the Sillydog forum members, but
their reactions have been much different than yours. The very first
reply was "There's nothing sweeter than when a joke gets turned around!
That is truely amazing timing! :-D "

http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29852#29852
Your own moderators are pretty sick of your whining too:
"I hope that Antony has confidence and maturity to drop this NOW."
http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42312#42312

If your own forum members don't share your reaction, stop hiding behind
the "administrator responsibility" mask. It's a personal grudge, that
you have trouble dealing with. I realize that my blunt harshness makes
it all the more hard for you to let it go; but I don't expect you to
change your attitude based on one of my messages. You're too proud.

> Most people here can tell what a good user support should be.
> People want answers not links, not links back to certain website(s)
> every time.

Yet, you're so silent about it when Ramona, Holger, or Jay post links.
Are there any inner conflicts, when you post links to the Sillydog
knowledge base? It's exactly how CG put it: "rhetoric". You wreak of
personal grudge.

My site is a user support site, not a commercial site. Unlike you, I
don't see other help sites as competition. Answering the same questions
over and over again is tiring, annoying, and hinders my ability to give
a new question the attention and effort it needs. That's why help sites
are created. It allows me to give each user an in depth full answer with
less effort. It's about efficiency.

If you reply to this, I will not reply back; because I know you like to
get in the last word.

If you're going to continue trolling me, so be it. You injure yourself
more than I. Now, I've got user support to do. That's why I'm here. So
if you're going to troll me, get ready. :-)

--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
Netscape/Mozilla Links
Netscape 7 Help
*POSTING GUIDELINES*

Posted by Antony on 20 August 2004 11:32 PM | website related

more August 2004 blogs. (or 2004 blogs)
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Grow up Antony
Posted by Glen Brown on 30 August 2004 4:30 AM.
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